How I Got Scammed By a Seller On Alibaba
I debated about whether I should share this story, but at the end I decided that my experience might help prevent someone from falling into the same scam as I did. At the time I was young, inexperienced and financially naive. Since then, I’ve learned and improved based on my past failures and eventually went on to run a small but profitable home business by making money online with ebay, at least for a modest period of time.
It All Started With Too Much Greed
Shortly after college I decided I wanted to start a part time side business selling merchandise on eBay. But first I needed to find a wholesale supplier. After some research I decided I wanted to focus on consumer electronics such as GPS navigation devices and Apple iPods, and concluded my best bet at finding a supplier would be through a free network site like Alibaba, that helps connect sellers with buyers of goods. Little did I know at the time, but sites like Alibaba are crawling with scammers and evil doers.
I ultimately decided to focus on selling Garmin and Tom Tom branded GPS units. After a few searches, I was amazed to find numerous sellers offering brand new Garmin GPS units for very little money. The Garmin GPS model I was interested in buying in bulk retailed for more than $1200 on eBay at the time. The sellers I found on Alibaba were offering each unit for only $700 each. The asking price was exceedingly low, but sadly I was too overcome with dollar signs in my head to realize that the offer was likely too good to be true. I essentially had blinders on and was too busy calculating all the profit I was going to make by selling these units for such high markup. Eventually I narrowed down a potential seller.
Greed Prevented Me From Recognizing the Warning Flags
When you are overcome with greed, it is hard to think clearly, even when a clearly fraudulent transaction is staring at you in the face. I should have been more aware of all the telltale signs that the seller was likely a potential scammer and a fraud. First of all, the seller provided me contact information based in Indonesia, a country like Nigeria that is notorious for being a hotbed of scammer activity. He also provided very limited company background information that could be used to verify his personal or business identity, or determine his true geographical location. The phone number he provided me did indeed work, but I should have realized that nowadays with VOIP technology, phone number locations are very easily faked. It’s easy to reside in one country and still obtain a temporary, disposable local phone number from another. Even paid identity authentication and verification services are subject to abuse and illegal manipulation as well. It’s not all that difficult for online scammers on Alibaba or any other Internet exchange service to obtain a genuine TrustPass or Alibaba Gold Membership certification using falsified identification.
Another thing that should have raised red flags was the fact that the seller offered to pay for shipping, which is an extremely unusual practice for first time wholesale purchases, especially since international shipping can be quite expensive. The seller also insisted on rushing the sale, frequently threatening to end the lucrative deal if I continued to demand more verification information and not move forward with payment. But otherwise, the scammer was extremely convincing in the way he portrayed the deal as completely legitimate. Rather than thinking that the sale was a scam, I just thought I was getting an excellent deal.
Because I was so motivated by greedy emotions, I was more fearful of losing the lucrative buy than I was of being scammed. There were so many warning signs that I simply ignored, such as the seller refusing to accept Paypal or even credit card payment. Instead, he demanded payment through bank wire transfer. If I had conducted more due diligence, I would have known that unlike Paypal or credit card transactions where my money would have been protected, bank wire transactions are permanent and irreversible once properly executed.
I Fell For the Trap - Hook, Line, and Sinker
Ultimately I sent him over $2,025.00 through bank wire transfer for 3 sample Garmin GPS units. Once he had the money, he disappeared without a trace. I attempted to contact him through the phone number he provided me, but the line had been disconnected. He never responded back to my e-mails and I never received the merchandise. My money was gone and I never recovered it.
Afterwards, I felt very stupid and ashamed, but I learned many valuable lessons as a result. I’m glad I experienced this hard knock life lesson earlier in my life when the potential stakes were lower. I thought something like this could never possibly happen to me, but it did, and I allowed my greedy emotions to get in the way of rational caution. You and I, we may think we’re very smart and that we’re so clever, but we are only human, and still susceptible to basic human emotional irrationality. Difficult to control emotions like greed, fear, and pride. So my friends, it’s important to always stay vigilant - scammers are everywhere and one day you might be in their cross hairs too.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Sorry to hear about your experience. Please post the scammer’s details (including bank wire details) so others who look him up through Google will find your warning.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Here’s everything I have on this loser:
Name: Deviansyah K. Manoch
Company: John’s Trading Company
Telephone: 011-62-813-19033894
Fax: 011-62-21-78844901
E-mail: eh_manoch@link.net.id
Bank: Bank of Central Asia
Bank Address: Jalan Cilandak KKO II / 5
Account Name Deviansyah K. Manoch
Swift Code CENAIDJA
Beneficiary Account Number: 733-0115259
November 13th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Wow, that’s awful! At least when people like you share their stories, the rest of us have a better chance of experiencing it only vicariously and recognizing the real thing. Thanks for sharing.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Wow really sorry to hear, I have just dicovered Alibaba.com and really glad to hear your story, now I’m scared to use Alibaba all together but do not know who else to use …
December 29th, 2007 at 6:46 am
I just finished typing a big letter on why none of you should even attempt contacting anyone on alibaba. but it didnt post and all my typing was for nothing. DO NOT use alibaba 90% of the so called business’s on there are scammers and alibaba know this but do not care cause they get their money no matter what happens to you. They will suspend a scammers account if you spend thousands of dollars in court proving that the business was a scam. They just dont care who they make a trust pass or gold member as long as they pay for the right to rip you off. I no longer use that website and no-one else should either EVER !!! Instead contact the company directly and they will always point you in the right direction. for example want ipod’s ok goto the apple web site and apply to be a re-seller not only are their prices just as good as the scammers but you get great after sales service, warranty and you acutally get that you have paid for.
Good luck to everyone and I can just hope that all those scammers really needed that money cause they will need it if I ever meet them. Just be thankfull they live in China and are not your next door neighbour.
December 29th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
March 31st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Sometimes it’s confusing me, to read which one is the true or false facts. Especially a lots of blogger using to manipulate people. So my advice is, why don’t we care to our self and do more alerts. These days people could say anything on the blogger, and we don’t know exactly which one is the truth. Some rumors also said, that this is the competition among suppliers and sellers. So, guys please be aware not to carry out so far.
April 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I just been scammed too. I had the very same experience. I never thought this would happen to me ever, This is crazy and I agree with th greedy thing u ignore all the redflags because of the prospective profit u would be getting. Well this is definitely a hard lesson but I learned it. Am almost sure I will never get my money back…
April 14th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Sorry for your financial loss. I feel your pain! It’s the worst feeling to be scammed but you live and learn. Greed is a terribly blinding thing for sure…
May 15th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Sorry to hear about your story, but thanks for posting it here.
I work for a Taiwanese company in beauty products, and we are on the other hand also afraid of crazy customers.
Lots of customers ask us to send samples across the world, assist them in registration processes etc etc. The list for their demands is sometimes like an essay.
Anyway, our recomendation for our new customers is that they place a small order, we usually only accept payments by TT, and we usually have minimum order, but in the beginning we always want the customer to purchase a smaller amount of products, they pay, and we send the products, in this way we see that the customer is really willing to pay, and the customer will see that we are serious about our commitment when it comes to proper packaging and sending the correct products.
This is how we do, does anyone have any better advice for us? Both for our customer and our side.
May 15th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I think most reputable companies should start accepting credit card payments instead of only T/T wire transfers. Credit cards do a much better job of providing protection for consumers and merchants since the card issuer assumes the financial cost of any loss due to fraudulent transactions. T/T transfers are commonly associated with Western Union type scams these days. Or at the very least, more reputable companies must be willing to accept some type of escrow agreement, even when it comes to initial sample requests.
May 15th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Ok, so how to do the credit card payments?
I originally comes from Sweden, and there its really easy doing credit card payments, but in Taiwan sooo many people are involved in fraud so its quite tricky using credit cards even for ‘easy’ purchases as tickets etc.
But we don’t give a shit how we get our money, as long as we get it, and the customer feels safe.
For TT transfers we have to give account No#, swift code and some stuff, correct?
What kind of details are needed for Credit Card payments.
May 15th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Well perhaps Paypal is a possible option. It allows potential international customers to link Paypal up with their bank accounts and credit cards to make online payments. Paypal provides some insurance and in the event of fraudulent transactions, Paypal covers and assumes a decent portion of the loss. This is helpful for the initial sample / test transactions used to establish credibility and trust. Thereafter wire transfers may be more appropriate.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Martin,
Perhaps paypal are the safe method so far. But I’ve been doing business with several Asian countries, which are not accepted paypal as payment. According to them, their country don’t have any paypal service. Then finally I just did bank transfer. It’s a risky of course, but we never know if we never tried. Not all of them are bad person, some of them are also real business person.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I have e-mail conversation with this person right now. He send me invoice for cell phones, photocopies of his ID card ( probably, fake ), his bank coordinates and his company address ( now it is “Pacific Trading” ) which looks like CitiBank address in Jakarta but with different zip code, his phone number for conversation and asked for Western Union transactions. I have his coordinates and documents ( but some are fake, probably ).
What should I do?
June 9th, 2008 at 6:06 am
My advice is to mess with him for amusement purposes. Please share any stories as I would love to hear about them. I personally hate scammers and would love for everyone that comes in contact with any of them to waste the scammer’s time and efforts on fruitless pursuits. I recommend asking him for tons and tons of verification information and to keep leading him on - essentially using his own scammer tactics against him.
Whatever you do however, do not send any money, Western Union checks, wire transfers, or fall for any escrow agreements no matter how credible or trustworthy his claims may seem. This Deviansyah Kurniawan Manoch fellow, or whatever his real name may be, is a very conniving and sneaky online scammer. I’m sure he’s running scam operations through Alibaba, eBay, and other sites as well. I really don’t know where he’s based or located exactly.
Beware!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Harry
I have been scammed 1800usd. My advice is do not use alibaba at all. I think the whole website is made of scammers. I got scammed using the following link
June 10th, 2008 at 7:52 am
It’s quite confusing me to see those all stories. But one thing I know, we are too greedy sometimes. We thought we could get so called “Special price” while the original price could be seen anywhere in our country. But why do we interested buying things over someone else from the another part of the world? Don’t you get it guys? THE BEST BUYING IS BUYING FROM YOUR OWN COUNTRY !! Other then looking for suppliers, sellers, or whatever they are.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:56 am
How can some suppliers selling some items more more cheaper then original distributors? Is it make sense if laptops selling more cheaper in other country, rather then we buy from our own country? Why don’t we buy it from original store on our country? It’s more easy, cash payment, and get the stuff right away from the cashier. So why do we still looking items from another country???
June 11th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
One thing i would like to asking, What is the validity of the whole words here? How could i know if the person written those article really got scam? Or perhaps it’s just they’re trying to cornering somebody else?
You know, internet are using for free and people could saying a lots of things in internet. How to prevent from fake information? Somebody else please answer this questions. Who’s going to responsible for all of the article written on the internet?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I actually find it sort of funny your suggestion that I am somehow trying to “corner” someone with my “fake information”. All I am trying to accomplish here is warn others of what had personally happened to me in the past by one unscrupulous online scammer from Alibaba.com
No one has to listen or heed my warnings or advice, but I’m trying to do a public service warning in case the same scam attempt ever happens again to anyone else in the future. By all accounts reflected in the comments, it appears others have fell for this particular scammer’s tricks and skills of persuasion as well.
I’m hoping that those who search in Google or Yahoo for the names: Deviansyah Kurniawan Manoch or Deviansyah K. Manoch will find their way here so that they can be forewarned.
You are correct that there are plenty of fake information sources and misleading articles online - but that’s why it’s important to use your own judgment as well.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Richard,
I could publish here my e-mail “conversation” with so-called
Deviansyah Kurniawan Manoch. There are many signs and signals that this is scam in every document that he sent.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Feel free to post your e-mail conversations with this particular scammer - perhaps the most relevant segments at least. He’s a pretty convincing guy I’ll give that to him. Of course, I was blinded by greed at the time.
June 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Recently it’s not only African country which we should aware. I’ve got scammed also by French guy, called Cyril. I pay the deposit money, but he never sending my order. Anyone could help me? He’s living in French
June 14th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I highly doubt that the individual you spoke to was from France. Most established European countries and the United States have little tolerance for scam activity and would crack down. I’m 99.99% positive your scammer is probably from Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraine), Africa (English speaking countries like Nigeria), or South East Asia (Indonesia).
Unfortunately, there is little that you can do if the scammer is actually from one of those countries. I’ve heard of people visiting those countries to confront the scammer - not a good idea though. Oftentimes the experience can prove dangerous or fatal.
June 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
As far as i know, there are few or even many articles about deviansyah on the GOOGLE search. These are for example:
http://www.jakartaphotoclub.com/public/deviansyah/profile.php
http://www.fotografer.net/isi/galeri/index.php?xxthn=2007&page=11016
http://www.korantempo.com/korantempo/2007/07/17/Metro/krn,20070717,55.id.html
do you think you got scammed by photographer Raymond??? Exactly !! There are few names or even hundreds of deviansyah on the GOOGLE search. Which one is the right one?? each information should be responsible. otherwise others will be a victim of wrong information. Internet could using for free. But since its Free must be responsible also
June 14th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
My experience occurred a few years ago, but at the time I did manage to speak to him over the phone and threaten police action and criminal prosecution (empty threats obviously). I recall his voice clearly and couldn’t figure out what type of accent he had. He definitely was not American…the accent was just foreign…Indian almost. I remember him trying to avoid the conversation saying that he needed to travel to Singapore or something weird like that.
Yes I’ve Googled his name many times and have tried to figure out his identity but I can’t say for sure that one of those links is definitely him. I highly doubt he would be so dumb as to post photos and use his real name though.
Scammers…live and learn I suppose.
June 18th, 2008 at 5:17 am
Raymond,
Does this address looks like Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraine), Africa (English speaking countries like Nigeria), or South East Asia (Indonesia) ??
77 RUE DU SERGENT BLANDAN. 54000 - Nancy - France
Also i could publish the transferred receipt here. Where the destination into one of the bank in France.
I think scammer is around the world now. Perhaps on your country too.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I’ve sent a few letters to listed addresses before but the letters always bounced back to me due to failure of delivery receipt.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I personally refuse to do business with anyone who is not from the United States anymore. American laws do a substantially better job of protecting consumers from scams and illegal online activities.
French and English addresses are frequently used by scammers for some unexplained reason.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Sorry to hear about your experience. I stumbled on your site as I was doing by due diligence about purchasing a product through a wholesaler I found on Alibaba. After reading your article as well as other discouraging posting from other people who have been scammed by sellers on Alibaba, I’ve decided not to use this wholesaler. Thanks for your post.